Dumb and dumber
I can't stay away from the news at the moment. Each day seems to bring more stuff that irritates the arse off me. As this is a pretty emotive issue please try to read it all before flipping out. Yelling and shouting only to be told you have the wrong end of the stick is such an embarrasment. Ok, sitting comfortably? Here we go.
Apparently a "high profile debate" has decide that Bristol should apologise to "the slaves" for it's role in the slave trade. The fact that these slaves are dead and the slavers themselves are dead doesn't seem to matter.
The chair, Anthony Grayling pointed out what an empty gesture it is. He suggested we should take the lessons from the past and worry about the future and the problem of racism in the present. Go Ant! Finally something sensible from a public debate.
This is a very tricky subject to discuss as people never seem to think clearly. As I said earlier it's emotive. If you oppose this sort of waste of time (as I do) you leave yourself open to accusations of racism so I guess it's cards on the table time.
I don't care for racists. It's a nasty form of extremism (and we all know how I feel about the Phylum extremist) which should repel any right minded person instinctively. Hating people who aren't the same colour as us is as bad as hating people who hold different religious beliefs or hating people because of their sexual preference. You can find the right side in any debate by opposing extremists, if both sides are extreme then I guess you form your own side. You wont be alone, I believe the majority of people would oppose them if they only thought about it.
I don't get how people can hate all black people. The question I really want to ask is, have you met them all? Disliking or even hating individuals is fine by me if you have a reason and that reason shouldn't have to take into account what colour or religion they are. If someone is a wanker they are a wanker whether or not they are Buddist or Gay or Indian.
Ok. We all clear where I stand now? No? Then read the bit above again asshat.
So, we have Paul Stephenson who is a black rights campaigner fighting against racism. Fair enough, though I feel he has missed the point, it shouldn't be black rights just human rights. We should be working towards the same rights for all not keeping these divisions in our society but that's just my opinion.
With him at this panel is "Hilary Banks, a direct descendant of a slave family in Bristol" who said,
"My grandmother's grandmother was a slave. It's thanks to her and all the other slaves that Bristol is such a wealthy city.
"Don't you think they deserve an apology?""
Damn right. Those slaves do deserve an apology and reparations for the pain they have suffered. The people who took those slaves from their home and sold them should be punished as should the wealthy who bought them and condemned them to a life of servitude.
One problem.
They are dead Hil. As door knobs. Pushing up the daisies. They have ceased to be.
Both the victims and the culprits are dead. The apology needed to be given while they were around to accept it. What you are asking is for people who have never owned a slave to apologise to either people who are dead and so can't hear them or to people who have never been a slave.
Can you see why I think this is a waste of time? Should I start demanding apologies from Italy for the Roman invasion? They killed Boudicca and technically I guess I came from the region of the Iceni. Come on Italians break out the apologies. I will woad up for the ceremony.
"but P1P that was so long ago. Slavery was much more modern."
Ok, fair enough. World war two. The English and the Germans bombed the shit out of each other. Do I deserve an apology from the German people? Do I fuck. If Hitler (that little one balled meglomaniac) was still alive I'd happily have him apologise to the people who lived through the war but from Germans who weren't even alive or old enough to be involved, why should they have to apologise? The only people apologising should be the people involved on both sides and only those responsible (those bastards should apologise to their own side as well). You feel me?
What say we cut the shit and try to deal with todays problems hmmm? Let's try for once to get the apology to the right people while they are still in a position to hear it? Todays victims of hate crimes could use our help more than the dead, whatever colour they are.
One interesting thing about this debate was that although the "meeting voted overwhelmingly in favour of a formal apology over slavery. (ie people who had to vote in public)
However, in a telephone poll conducted by BBC Points West, 91.7% of nearly 10,000 viewers voted against an apology with 8.3% voting in favour."
I don't doubt that some of those viewers voting against just don't like black people but surely it can't be the whole 10,000. I think a goodly proportion are just fed up of all the political holier than thou bullshit and think we should deal with the real issues.
I guess when you can vote anonymously you don't have the pressure to make sure every one knows you are not a racist and can actually say what you feel. I guess it's a bit like being unable to criticise Israel (and I think that Israel and palestine is big case of pot and kettle although you would think that given Jewish history they would be a little more reluctant to harm innocents whatever the provocation) without being called anti semitic!
I am proud of you anonymous viewers (at least the ones who voted against it as it's crap rather than just the racists).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/4760803.stm
Apparently a "high profile debate" has decide that Bristol should apologise to "the slaves" for it's role in the slave trade. The fact that these slaves are dead and the slavers themselves are dead doesn't seem to matter.
The chair, Anthony Grayling pointed out what an empty gesture it is. He suggested we should take the lessons from the past and worry about the future and the problem of racism in the present. Go Ant! Finally something sensible from a public debate.
This is a very tricky subject to discuss as people never seem to think clearly. As I said earlier it's emotive. If you oppose this sort of waste of time (as I do) you leave yourself open to accusations of racism so I guess it's cards on the table time.
I don't care for racists. It's a nasty form of extremism (and we all know how I feel about the Phylum extremist) which should repel any right minded person instinctively. Hating people who aren't the same colour as us is as bad as hating people who hold different religious beliefs or hating people because of their sexual preference. You can find the right side in any debate by opposing extremists, if both sides are extreme then I guess you form your own side. You wont be alone, I believe the majority of people would oppose them if they only thought about it.
I don't get how people can hate all black people. The question I really want to ask is, have you met them all? Disliking or even hating individuals is fine by me if you have a reason and that reason shouldn't have to take into account what colour or religion they are. If someone is a wanker they are a wanker whether or not they are Buddist or Gay or Indian.
Ok. We all clear where I stand now? No? Then read the bit above again asshat.
So, we have Paul Stephenson who is a black rights campaigner fighting against racism. Fair enough, though I feel he has missed the point, it shouldn't be black rights just human rights. We should be working towards the same rights for all not keeping these divisions in our society but that's just my opinion.
With him at this panel is "Hilary Banks, a direct descendant of a slave family in Bristol" who said,
"My grandmother's grandmother was a slave. It's thanks to her and all the other slaves that Bristol is such a wealthy city.
"Don't you think they deserve an apology?""
Damn right. Those slaves do deserve an apology and reparations for the pain they have suffered. The people who took those slaves from their home and sold them should be punished as should the wealthy who bought them and condemned them to a life of servitude.
One problem.
They are dead Hil. As door knobs. Pushing up the daisies. They have ceased to be.
Both the victims and the culprits are dead. The apology needed to be given while they were around to accept it. What you are asking is for people who have never owned a slave to apologise to either people who are dead and so can't hear them or to people who have never been a slave.
Can you see why I think this is a waste of time? Should I start demanding apologies from Italy for the Roman invasion? They killed Boudicca and technically I guess I came from the region of the Iceni. Come on Italians break out the apologies. I will woad up for the ceremony.
"but P1P that was so long ago. Slavery was much more modern."
Ok, fair enough. World war two. The English and the Germans bombed the shit out of each other. Do I deserve an apology from the German people? Do I fuck. If Hitler (that little one balled meglomaniac) was still alive I'd happily have him apologise to the people who lived through the war but from Germans who weren't even alive or old enough to be involved, why should they have to apologise? The only people apologising should be the people involved on both sides and only those responsible (those bastards should apologise to their own side as well). You feel me?
What say we cut the shit and try to deal with todays problems hmmm? Let's try for once to get the apology to the right people while they are still in a position to hear it? Todays victims of hate crimes could use our help more than the dead, whatever colour they are.
One interesting thing about this debate was that although the "meeting voted overwhelmingly in favour of a formal apology over slavery. (ie people who had to vote in public)
However, in a telephone poll conducted by BBC Points West, 91.7% of nearly 10,000 viewers voted against an apology with 8.3% voting in favour."
I don't doubt that some of those viewers voting against just don't like black people but surely it can't be the whole 10,000. I think a goodly proportion are just fed up of all the political holier than thou bullshit and think we should deal with the real issues.
I guess when you can vote anonymously you don't have the pressure to make sure every one knows you are not a racist and can actually say what you feel. I guess it's a bit like being unable to criticise Israel (and I think that Israel and palestine is big case of pot and kettle although you would think that given Jewish history they would be a little more reluctant to harm innocents whatever the provocation) without being called anti semitic!
I am proud of you anonymous viewers (at least the ones who voted against it as it's crap rather than just the racists).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/4760803.stm
posted by Student at 11:50 am
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